Labor vs Liberal : who will make the better government?
November 19th 2007 03:17
Welcome to the first ever Debate Battle!
In the lead up to a Federal Election in Australia this weekend, the topic for today is:
Labor vs Liberal : who will make the better government?
Do you think the Liberals are better at handling the economy? Was work choices a step to far? Is Labor going to fix Global Warming? Do you just think Kevin is an awfully nice chap and it's time for Old Man Howard to step down?
To join in leave a comment below.
(point of note: I couldn't find a larger enough caricature of Kevin Rudd).
In the lead up to a Federal Election in Australia this weekend, the topic for today is:
Labor vs Liberal : who will make the better government?
Do you think the Liberals are better at handling the economy? Was work choices a step to far? Is Labor going to fix Global Warming? Do you just think Kevin is an awfully nice chap and it's time for Old Man Howard to step down?
To join in leave a comment below.
VS
(point of note: I couldn't find a larger enough caricature of Kevin Rudd).
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Comment by jon
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The rules of DebateBattle are as follows:
1) Insults are to be witty and in good humor. Apart from that stick to arguing about the facts.
2) You can take either side of an argument regardless of your actual views. In fact you are encouraged to take the other side now and again, it's mind expanding.
3) The debate will take place via comments in response to the official debate post on the host blog.
4) Anyone can participate.
5) Anonymous comments are discouraged.
Comment by Harry
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I'm going to vote for Howard because there are too many Union Officials high up in the Labor party who will have too much say. In a global economy we need to have flexible labour laws in order for business to be able to compete.
Having said that we also need a great education system and I've not been impressed with how the Liberals (for any Americans out there, the Liberals are actually the conservative party in Australia) have run down the tertiary education system.
They have also not invested in Renewable energy research, or supported the renewable energy industry as much as they should have. Completely regardless of Global Warming it's a growth industry that we are silly not to support.
For me it's the Liberals, but they need a good kick up the pants.
Comment by Dexter
Comment by Louie
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It wouls take a denial from the ohrses mouth to convince me they won't do this.
Comment by Optomistic Opportunism
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How about we outsource the Prime Minister? I hear the Scandinavians are hot right now.
Jon, I've got an idea for a Debate, related to what people prefer to read about on Orble.
Let me know how its done, I'll let you know what its about.
Comment by Ahmed
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If history is to repeat then I think the accusations the Liberal party is making about Labors plans for the future are its own plans.
Comment by jon
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OO -- send me a PM about your idea and we can set a date. The next free one is the 24th of Dec but if you don't want Xmas eve then it would be the 31st of Dec or the 7th of Jan. If anyone else wants to host a debate send me a PM or comment on this post.
Comment by katyzzz
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But, having considered both sides of the argument without doing my brain exercises, I have decided, vote 1. Howard, 2. Family first.
but perhaps it should be the other way around, suffer the little children to come unto me, vote 1. God.
I hope everyone will consider this a well argued response, it is better than no response at all and Congratulation Ahmed, for taking every body on.
Comment by Louie
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Anyhow don't go too hard nailing me, i was just having fun to contribute to your debate
But it was a labor guy who said it to me, otherwise i would have thought the same thing as you.
Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by Lilla
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It is no contest in my mind and my vote is private, and I find I cannot answer anyway, because I feel so strongly on so many things the current government is doing wrong...OMG. Things that will not impact directly on our generation (or them), but in years to come - when eveyone wakes up too late - for our children's children it will be too late to reform without out and out revolution, especially if food is short.
I cannot expect short sighted business people to understand my view, especially those with big investment interests and bottom lines to protect, but anyone who has sense will understand the value of food and water, above that of oil... esp. when so much renewable energy is available.
I wonder which government supports those things more?
All I see from this liberal one, is a widening of the gap between the rich and the poor, in a gradual regression to the work houses of the poor during the 18th century, when the rich lived off the backs of the poor, in a system that slowly degraded their rights, to nothing. I want more for my children than a second rate education and eventual slavery.
They already share a narrowing prospect of owning their own homes... as the noose tightens so slowly, no one really notices...but I do, becuase I run the household budget and I can see the hours spent out - against the dollars in - weighed against the expenditure. It is easy to loose sight of that when we can rely on credit so readily, isn't it?
I want a government that offers education as more important than someone elses war.. and Australian history shows how the liberals come along with big plans whilst reaping the benefits of the labour governments before them ... meanwhile education and health reach all time lows with women dying on the roadside in child labour.
Prisons still have air-conditioning, whilst our children suffer terrible summer heat in sardine boxes on sunbaked paddocks. Farmers are walking off the land and still only denial on Kyoto and the need for new infrastructure to support the changing climate.
Nothing is new in this case of a lack education under liberal rule either, as state figures are fodged to hide illiteracy and skilled professionals are IMPORTED!!! OMG! THat's what 12 yearsof liberal education has bought us too. It will take years to set it to rights... and what's wrong with unions, they won our rights to start with and set up many systems that make democracy function 'equally.' They never ruined The mother-land did they? I thought they fostered the human rights ethic?
I want a government that isn't afraid to stand alone in world trade agreements wihtout feeling it has to lick some countries backside ... and one that subsidises the farmers - like the American government does. I want a government that will put the $100 loose change I had during the 1980's and 1990's back in my pocket, instead of the treasurers coffers.
Many traditions are born from creative effort...
and many followed because of a lack of it.
I want a government that is young enough to consider alternatives to mindless tradition for its' own sake, regardless of the walls collapsing around them (or the sinking of the Titanic). One that will put in tanks for stormwater run off and feed it back to flush our loo's. A government that will support 'clean technologies' and not just the mindless sale of uranium as the agenda, for a future 'super-centre' for uranium supplies and ugly nuclear desalination plants all over the place.
I want a government that will stop the multi-nationals like woolworths from competing out the small guy who sells the locally grown produce. I want to be able to buy local from little novelty shops like I used to, not just Chinese crap from dime-a-dozen $2 stores (which allowed for the erossion of our standards of living by some 27% at the turn of the millenium).
I want kyoto ratified and decent 'green' insfrastructure subsidies offered to every household ... I want a government who will tell Bush to bugger off and not buy Coca Cola!
I want a lot... but above all that, I do not want Peter Costello as my Prime Minister.
Which government DO YOU think will give me all that?
Lilla ...
Comment by Damo
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Did not like him much but disliked Keating more at the time.
Now Keating can't hurt me anymore I find him witty and amuzing.
I want to feel the same about Howard.
Comment by Louie
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Lilla what you want is admirable and I hope we get it.
We have had discussions on bi-partisan issues in the past and i wish everything on your list was bi-partisan, we would certainly have a better country, .....
would that then make the election a popularity contest? then could we like vote for Rove or Kylie or just double up and chuck it in with the australian Idol contest
P.S. I know these things aren't a laughing matter, I really think all your issues should be the minimum standard that austrailan's deserve.
Comment by Lilla
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And so we do. So for me, it is a game of numbers and the vote will go to the one who will give the most of them on my list (and who doesn't have Peter Costello as an alternative).
I am not interested in popularity of promises that plays on mass hysteria - as is evident in America - although in defense of that country, I have to say that they do take the policies being offered a little more seriously than her ein OZ.
However, the amount of money wasted in advertising campaigns is another issue... and I want a government who doesn't spend much in advertising, but puts air-conditioners into classrooms.
Sadly, I think many still feel it to be a BIG joke, like the cricket who chirped all summer long.
Lilla ...
Comment by Ahmed
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While we may be looking for a government thats new and daring, one that will invest for the future rather than the present, it's apparent that the scare tactics employed by both the Liberal and Labor parties will ensure that either one of the parties will get in and not one of the more daring ones.
Perhaps it's just that people aren't daring enough to try another line of thought, it's become stagnant in most peoples minds that more of the same is good, better tried and true. To that end Labor has more or less remolded itself to be another Liberal party, albeit with some slight variations but nothing major.
So what will happen come the elections? Honestly I'd be surprised if anyone but Howard wins. It is more than apparent that the Labor party isn't breaking any ground and more or less being generel dicks. John Howard is pulling out a few tricks to get votes, slinging dirt and making empty promises, an art he's mastered. Dare I say Australians are gullible enough to vote for this man based on these empty promises? But it isn't just that, it's the fear of change and the lack of enthusiasm for change.
Comment by Louie
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Couldn't agree with you more, how much are they spending?? it is a joke, both parties advertising in Prime Time last night, think of all the better places that money could be spent other than Ad and TV execs Ferrari's....whats the bet if you did the no's Ad spaces are more exy during an election and everyone would get a discount EXCEPT a political party.....
Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by Lilla
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Opto, do you know who the Greens will give their votes to, is it labor?
Ahmed, do you know who the other parties give their votes too this time round... I have lost track of it all since I started home schooling my children.
Thanks
Lilla ...
Comment by Optomistic Opportunism
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Greens and Labor go together like Nationals and Liberal.
Although one does wonder why... but it is ultimately up to us being educated consumers in our own right which will determine our future.
And that's not just for the election.
I truly believe there will be serious disasters taking place if people continue to simply accept oil and a property boom and oversecurity leading to that sense of emptiness which I actually find myself feeling abit these days (but that may just be from losing afew kilos).
But then I'm just a true believer.
And I am scared by the power the media are trying to exert in these matters. Politicians should not be hyped-up salesmen, buying loyalty from those who don't really need the money.
But in the end, its all very simple when it comes to the two-party preference. It seems the well off may be realising the continual fall from grace of those who were already beneath.
And everyone knows its already lonely at the top as it is.
Comment by Brenton
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But I think Greens are best.
Comment by Lilla
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We'll add some Greens then, I'm not sure of their economic policies on health and education, foreign trade and all, but Bob has had some bonza ideaz in his time and been hushed on a number of them... I like that... and agree with everything you've said. *chuckle* yeah, in science experiements, it is always the scum that floats.
Cheers,
Lilla ...
Comment by Cibbuano
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It's fun jeering from the sidelines, though. Since Australia has mandatory voting, I've noticed that Australians are notably tight lipped about their election choices.
It also seems that enough Australians scream about John Howard, but eventually vote for him. 11 years in office? Shee!
I also think this is hilarious: Kevin Rudd vs. John Howard gangsta rap.
Comment by Sheree
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Although one does wonder why...
Because they have more in common than you think...
I don't understand why people think Labor and Liberal are similar. They're not. Rudd is a dreamboat compared to Hellhole Howard.
I'll be voting Greens then Labor.
Time to go....JW!
Comment by Optomistic Opportunism
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It is worthwhile pointing out that the Greens are here to keep the big boys and girls from doing too much of a wrong thing.
And that includes corruption from both corners of the boxing ring. Ever wondered how it was a breeze for Carr to get a 200K job with Mac Bank?
Just ask the friendly (sic) people behind the Cross City and Lane Cove tunnels.
Comment by Ahmed
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Yeah tell me about it, aren't we just the biggest suckers?
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will haveto see on the day
Comment by D. Armenta
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Glad you've gone ahead with it!