Justifying An Evil Using History
January 18th 2008 14:33
Some of the greatest people in history have skeletons in their closets we would probably like to forget. From Mahatma Ghandi's blatant racism to the founding fathers ownership of slaves we often forget that even great people can make grave mistakes or commit evil.
One such person would be President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In a particularly ironic way he is the reason why the US has limited Presidential terms, he served four terms in office, so as you can probably figure out he was quite popular during his days. I quite respect President Franklin, maybe for the wrong reasons but his political career is somewhat of a drawing power of inspiration.
However he was not immune to making mistakes, I find two of them to be quite heinous, his failure to act upon the very likely possibility that Japan would attack the US and how he had Japanese-Americans relocated to camps over the course of World War 2.
The wrong that is now being justified using history is something President Franklin is probably most guilty of as far as modern history is concerned. That is, he failed to define the United States enemy as Japan, rather he collectively defined his enemies as Japanese people.
Generalizations are nothing new though like slavery it's hardly justifiable simply because it has happened throughout the course of history or by people we can respect. I believe it is one of the main reasons why people hate each other. We do not make the distinction between our enemy and our friend or at least our enemy and those who are not our enemy reasoning that everyone knows what we mean. Of course thats not true, nobody knows what we mean and people will take generel assertions to be just that.
One such person would be President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In a particularly ironic way he is the reason why the US has limited Presidential terms, he served four terms in office, so as you can probably figure out he was quite popular during his days. I quite respect President Franklin, maybe for the wrong reasons but his political career is somewhat of a drawing power of inspiration.
However he was not immune to making mistakes, I find two of them to be quite heinous, his failure to act upon the very likely possibility that Japan would attack the US and how he had Japanese-Americans relocated to camps over the course of World War 2.
The wrong that is now being justified using history is something President Franklin is probably most guilty of as far as modern history is concerned. That is, he failed to define the United States enemy as Japan, rather he collectively defined his enemies as Japanese people.
Generalizations are nothing new though like slavery it's hardly justifiable simply because it has happened throughout the course of history or by people we can respect. I believe it is one of the main reasons why people hate each other. We do not make the distinction between our enemy and our friend or at least our enemy and those who are not our enemy reasoning that everyone knows what we mean. Of course thats not true, nobody knows what we mean and people will take generel assertions to be just that.
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Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Mahatma Gandhi's blatant racism?
I have oodles on Gandhi and found no such evidence.
Get your facts correct before you abuse them Ahmed.
Comment by Ahmed
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His own grandson won't deny it, back then it was normal to be racist.
This video is somewhat exaggerated but it gets that one point across: Really Long Link
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Which one?
That is hardly evidence.
This just two wankers doing a hatchet job.
The same hatchet job the British did when he was alive.
The video also attacks Mother Teresa's Home for the Dying in India. Basically repeating the same brain dead accusations that Germain Greer made some years back.
What wonderful people you are using as an example Ahmed.
No wonder you are easily dismissed by your opponents. You use their dirt digging tactics when it suits you.
Comment by Ahmed
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It's not something that 'suits' me, what doesn't suit me is unquestioned authority of any figure in history. Mahatma Ghandi is one such figure. Am I going to agree that this is just dirt slinging? Sure, but theres facts in there. I don't necessarily approve of the message thats being sent though I don't deny some of the facts presented.
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
I have very little patience with hacks so I will be brief.
Gandhi made many statements that when taken out of contexts and not viewed with the irony he was trying to insert into them could easily be edited down to show him to be more evil than Hitler.
Do you honestly think that the British and the South African Colonies did not go through every word he wrote looking for dirt. Dream on.
What you are doing is going to two web Video hacks who have taken words out of context and edited interview to suit their own bigoted claims. The Bible also says that there is no God if you selectively read it. And what does the Koran say if selectively quoted? Any hack can do it.
The only difference between these hacks and others is that you seem to like these ones.
So what does that make you?
Conversation over.
I have less patience for ignorance.
Comment by Ahmed
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I actually I do believe all his enemies went through every word he wrote to dig some dirt up on him, however racism was normal back then. You also said yourself, what he wrote could be taken out of context, explain to me why the british did not take his racist jests out of context to use against him? Because racism was normal for the day.
I don't actually like Penn and Teller by any stretch of the imagination, they just indulge themselves in their absoloute 100% immunity to being wrong much like many other people do. The only difference I see between them and most other people who act like them is that they have their own TV show. good for them I suppose. In any case I'm not going to dismiss them outright because I don't like their distortions, much less do I dismiss other people outright, simply because in between all the self reightous wanking there's some good points made.
Objectively looking at people we regard as great people is important if we are to better understand them. We can't simply accept Mahatma Ghandi is a perfect man now can we? He had his quirks and oddities, mostly inline with the times he lived in, perhaps some not so much. To slightly shift focus we can look at Mother Theresa whom they outright attack. They're doing it for the shock factor and ratings but if we were to look at it with some unbiased perspective we can see, she wa not a bad person however the church to which she belonged did overstate her importance and transformed her into a public face of sorts.
Such indulgence is no better than the indulgence Penn and Teller partake in, for instance with such indulgence we can say 'wow, Mother Theresa went to see the Pope and was so humble she wore a dress worth 1 rupee', yet we lose our objective site, that Mother Theresa travelled severel thousand miles, escored by many hundred people, to meet the pope. All that was financed by the church who had it in their best interests to make her look so grand. Bad? Kinda, utter evil? Not really.
Just because I don't like them does not mean I'm going to ignore everything they say. After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Comment by D. Armenta
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I'm curious as to the statement about Gandhi being racist; against whom? Is your source a trustworthy one?